Dark and Moody Forums - Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle

Jim Master Assassin Chalice of Marvels Ring of Protection "To win without fighting is best." - Sun Tzu Posts: 10692 Gender:	Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « on: Mar 4^th, 2010, 12:30pm » This chapter will begin once the last one ends. The current thread will end once everyone goes to sleep (or stays up to stand gurard).
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Jim Master Assassin Chalice of Marvels Ring of Protection "To win without fighting is best." - Sun Tzu Posts: 10692 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #1 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 4:09am » Nothing happens while the party sleeps. Once they are all awake, they eat and stare at the puzzle a while. "Are we going to attempt to solve this now or search the rest of this floor first?", Fino asks, as he looks into a small mirror and picks his teeth with a sliver of wood.
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Thomas

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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #2 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 2:21pm »

Cormac says, "If it were my choice, we'd hit this riddle hard, find access to the other area that holds the staff, and try to finish what we came here to do. I intend on coming back for some of that gold, and we can explore the rest of the area here when we come back. That's my suggestion. I doubt we're going to find the answer to this riddle in one of the unchecked rooms."

He called everyone over and spoke very quietly to them, "We must prepare for the worst though. If we try this riddle and fail, that creature over there intends on making short work of us. We should prepare a preemptive strike." He looked to Thorfinn, Aylana, and Billy, and felt a need to explain the longer words - "You know, beat him to the punch so to speak."

Character: Cormac Mason

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Thomas

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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #3 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 2:23pm »

ooc: Brought forward for convenience's sake:

Again without words, but speaking in the mind of - this time - the entire party, the rules are given again and an answer is given to Cormac's question, It looks as if one key is missing, but perhaps you will not need that one. There is only a slot for three keys, as you can see . . . and there are eight keys. There is one clue I can give you, though:

Only three keys will work here,
Order matters not, don't fear,
But the pegs, there's none to waste,
Only in correct holes place,
Simplify by numbering,
Quick solution that may bring!

"There is only one correct answer and you only get one try. Choose wisely. Take as long as you would like. I have time."

There are seven keys, eight holding slots that the keys are sitting in, three key holes at the top, 12 peg holes (three columns of four), and six pegs. That is, if the whole board were not side-ways! The keys are metal, each a different color and each in its own slot: purple, blue, green, (empty), black, orange, white, and red.

Fino nods graciously at the guardian and looks at the peg board. "You now, it is funny.", he says to no one in particular, "Miragic is read up and down, but the language of Oasis Prime is written left to right . . . "

Character: Cormac Mason

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Thomas Guildmaster Assassin The Soul Forge Ring of Protection It is lonely at the top, but you eat better. Posts: 22333 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #4 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 2:25pm » ooc: How big is the peg board? Does it look like the pegs would be used to pull the answerer up to the key holes in order to access them and use the keys? Character: Cormac Mason
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Jim Master Assassin Chalice of Marvels Ring of Protection "To win without fighting is best." - Sun Tzu Posts: 10692 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #5 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 2:32pm » No. Everything on the board can be reached standing on your feet if you are average human height.
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Jim Master Assassin Chalice of Marvels Ring of Protection "To win without fighting is best." - Sun Tzu Posts: 10692 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #6 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 2:35pm » "When did he say he'd kill us?", Fino whispers to Cormac.
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Thomas

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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #7 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 2:37pm »

Cormac goes on to discuss his thoughts about the riddle facing them, hoping that someone else could offer counter-thoughts that might inspire him to making the right choice.

"My thinking on this puzzle so far... Only three keys are the right keys. Not sure which colors that might be, but I think that the color is determined by the holes that are filled with pegs below the key hole. We have six pegs to put into holes, and by doing that, we are determining what color goes into which hole.

So for argument's sake (and this is by no means my suggestion to the answer, but just a thought) if we were to number the keys from top to bottom, then it would be:

White = 0
Green = 1
Blue = 2
Red = 3
Orange = 4
Purple = 5
Yellow = 6
Black = 7

Then say we stuck four pegs into the left column of peg holes, then we might have to use the orange key on the left key hole. Two pegs go into the middle column, then Blue would go into the middle key hole. No pegs in the right column, and White would go into the right key hole.

My problem with this answer is that there are too many variables that could be the 'right' answer if this was how it was meant to be. You might use 3, 2, and 1 for different key colors. And how do we know which of the peg holes to use? We could observe it in a binary sense where each slot represents a bit, thereby putting a peg in each hole would represent the number 15, but there's been nothing else found that seems to suggest Oasis Prime worked in bianary.

The only thing I am certain about is that it doesn't matter left to right keyhole which key we put in there. The determining factor is going to be the positioning of the pegs below it."

Character: Cormac Mason

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Thomas

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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #8 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 2:47pm »

To Fino's question, Cormac thinks back, "Oh, well... maybe I misunderstood him. He did say he'd have to kill us if we attempted to get through without trying the riddle. We do not know what might happen if we try the riddle and fail, but he said we only get one chance to try. Maybe we should find out what happens to people who get the answer wrong."

Character: Cormac Mason

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Thomas

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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #9 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 2:49pm »

To Aylana, Cormac asks, "Could you do a visual inspection on the peg holes and see if any of them are special on the inside, like they release some sort of mechanism or trigger or something? And if they do all have that sort of mechanism as I suspect they do, can you find out if any of them are different from the others?" He further cautions, "For Heavens' sake, don't go probing it with tools. That might cause one of the magic warding spells to go off. Just a visual precursory inspection, please."

Character: Cormac Mason

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« Last Edit: Mar 5^th, 2010, 2:54pm by Thomas »

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Thomas

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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #10 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 3:00pm »

Cormac looks to the guardian, stands and takes a step forward, "Good morning sir. I have a question, if you don't mind... maybe a couple. You say you are very learned, and I respect that. You might not be able to answer my questions... and if not, that's ok. But I would be failing myself if I didn't at least attempt to find the answers before solving this riddle."

He points to the peg board and asks, "Is there any column under the key holes that would be empty as a part of the correct answer, or would each column contain at least one peg?"

"Secondly, do you know if they understood the number zero in Oasis Prime? Historical evidence has shown that many ancient civilizations didn't really capture the concept of zero until much later in their development."

"And finally, what would happen to someone who tried the riddle, but got the wrong answer?"

Character: Cormac Mason

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« Last Edit: Mar 5^th, 2010, 3:04pm by Thomas »

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Jim
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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #11 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 3:00pm »

"Yes, I think he said the magic would kill us if we tried to cheat the system, so don't poke anything inside the holes, please.", Fino says. Then, to Cormac, he whispers, "I see what you mean. He did say we only have one chance, so does that mean he boots us out or that he kills us. Also, does one chance mean 'one chance per person'? Somehow, I doubt it. Do you supposed he'd tell us? Hold on, he spoke in our minds, do you think he can read our thoughts when we whisper like this?"

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Thomas Guildmaster Assassin The Soul Forge Ring of Protection It is lonely at the top, but you eat better. Posts: 22333 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #12 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 3:03pm » Cormac grimaces when Fino points out the obvious... "Er... yeah, whoops." He looked up to the guardian and smiled apologetically. Character: Cormac Mason
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Jim
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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #13 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 3:05pm »

Once Cormac was done with his questions, the floating head answers in Cormac's mind, "It would be unfair for me to answer questions like your first question. Your second question is a good one. Oasis Prime did not use zero at any time. And as for what would happen to you if you failed the riddle . . . you will have to find that out through your actions. Hopefully, you will not."

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Thomas Guildmaster Assassin The Soul Forge Ring of Protection It is lonely at the top, but you eat better. Posts: 22333 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #14 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 3:07pm » Cormac then asked, "If I try it and get it wrong, can one of my friends take his or her turn at the puzzle next?" Character: Cormac Mason
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Jim Master Assassin Chalice of Marvels Ring of Protection "To win without fighting is best." - Sun Tzu Posts: 10692 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #15 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 3:25pm » "We will see."
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Thorn Chief Assassin Talisman of Zagy Ring of Protection Posts: 4993 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #16 - on: Mar 5^th, 2010, 4:40pm » (I'm away on winter holiday, please npc if needed. Will be back Sunday.)
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Thomas

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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #17 - on: Mar 8^th, 2010, 12:56am »

Cormac turns back to the others, "Ok, so these people didn't use 0... so if we number the keys, we start from 1, top down. Because they didn't use 0, we can assume that each of the key holes must have at least one key. Having only one of each key, that tells us each combination of pegs must be unique. Six pegs to work with, three keys to use... that means three combinations. 1, plus 2, plus 3. And we would use the top three keys respectively, White (1), Green (2), and Blue (3). As far as where the pegs go, I don't know how to go about preferring one hole over the other. Maybe it doesn't matter. But that's why I was hoping Aylana would be so kind as to take a look to see if any of them appear any different internally."

Character: Cormac Mason

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Jim Master Assassin Chalice of Marvels Ring of Protection "To win without fighting is best." - Sun Tzu Posts: 10692 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #18 - on: Mar 8^th, 2010, 1:03am » Aylana peeks inside, but can see no difference between one hole and another. To the naked eye, they are all identical.
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Andrew Guildmaster Assassin Hand of Vecna Ring of Protection Common Sense: So Rare It's a Gorram Super Power! Posts: 15339 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #19 - on: Mar 10^th, 2010, 12:11am » Thorfinn shrugged and gave a puzzled look, he was rubbish at riddles. Character: Thorfinn Ironstone
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Thorn Chief Assassin Talisman of Zagy Ring of Protection Posts: 4993 Gender:	Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle « Reply #20 - on: Mar 10^th, 2010, 11:22am » Aylana says:"There's no difference inside." She jumps back down, and shrugs.
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Jim
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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #21 - on: Mar 10^th, 2010, 12:36pm »

Fino suddenly wakes up. "Hold on!", he says, "It just occured to me . . . the poem/clue said that the order of the three colored keys does not matter, right? But, it says that the order of the pegs has to be exact. So . . . my guess is that one does not directly have to do with the other. As long as we have the correct three colored keys in any order then we are fine . . . and the placement of the pegs does not related to what color is above them. But . . . does that even make sense? How else can we pick peg order if not in relation to the keys? Hmmmm."

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Flax
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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #22 - on: Mar 10^th, 2010, 1:00pm »

"The whole thing gives me a headache. First, to get to the part you're talking about, we need to figure out which keys are the right color.

"I say the one we found must be one of them. It would be just like someone to require the missing key, so anyone who doesn't actually go find it, gets zapped. Then they carry that key with them... I mean, all you need to deny entry is one key, even if three are required. You *could* let your minions carry the other two, but this place just doesn't seem like a real trusting sort of government, you know?"

Character: Billy Red

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Thomas

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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #23 - on: Mar 10^th, 2010, 2:19pm »

Cormac sighed and sat down heavily. "Fine... ok, let's entertain that thought. The yellow key is one of the right ones. But why is it? What is so special about the yellow key that would make it one of the right ones as opposed to the other 5 of the other 7? The answer must be in the riddle somehow."

He recites the riddle:

"Only three keys will work here,
Order matters not, don't fear,
But the pegs, there's none to waste,
Only in correct holes place,
Simplify by numbering,
Quick solution that may bring!

We can accept the fact that the answers are not coded into the riddle because Oasis Prime alphabet was bound to be different from our own. If we see an 'O', that might not represent Orange because for all we know, in Oasis Prime Orange is Magenta. Likewise, we couldn't use the number of letters or words in use to represent any specific color because that might also be different in Oasis Prime."

He shook his head, "We don't have enough information to find the answer. Might as well just prepare for battle. Better than wasting our time trying to find an answer that we won't get except by guesswork."

Character: Cormac Mason

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« Last Edit: Mar 10^th, 2010, 2:29pm by Thomas »

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Thomas

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Re: Chapter Six: Below the Puzzle
« Reply #24 - on: Mar 10^th, 2010, 7:58pm »

Frustrated, the wizard stood up and approached the puzzle. He looked over at the floating head on the pink clouds and said, "Hey ... get ready for whatever you plan on doing because I've had enough toying around. We're going through one way or another."

He snatched up the pegs and just started populating the peg board seemingly at random. He plugged in the top three holes, then the middle hole on the second row, then the left hole on the third row, and the middle hole on the last row.

He waited a second to see if anything would happen before grabbing up three keys... the Red, the blue, and the yellow. He plugged them into the key holes and turned them each in turn.

Once finished, he turned around and looked back at the riddle guardian and folded his arms. "Well? Have at you."

Character: Cormac Mason

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